Original Malachi Martin Interview on Third secret of Fatima (about last Pope) (*)
July 13th 1998 – ART BELL MALACHI MARTIN – transcript
Art Bell: It is my understanding that you have taken a vow of silence or secrecy. You have read the Third Secret. It was shared with you. Is that correct?
Fr. Martin: Yes, it was given to me to read one morning, early, in February 1960. And of course, before I got it I had to a simple oath you always take of maintaining the secret. So the details of it I cannot communicate – I mean, the actual verbiage and expressions.
Art Bell: If this Third Secret of Fatima were made public, could it be the shock that the public, that the Church, needs?
Fr. Martin: It could be. And that is one reason why it is not published; why it sunk into a limbo; out of which it is not going to come easily. It would be a shock. There’s no doubt about that. It would effect people in different ways though, Art.
Some people would, on being told this is authentically the Third Secret of Fatima, they would get extremely angry.
Art Bell: Oh I understand. Believe me, I understand, father.
Art Bell: The following is a transcription of what is possibly the Third Secret of Fatima as read by Art Bell on 5-14-98 at 34 minutes and 38 seconds into the program. And I began it with this preamble: “All right. I in no way warrant the following as being authentic. I have no way of knowing. All I can tell you is, it feels real. It is alleged to be the Third Secret of Fatima. You decide for yourself. Here we go.
A great plague will befall mankind. No where in the world will there be order. Satan will rule the highest places determining the way of things. He will succeed in seducing the spirits of the great scientists who invent arms, with which it will be possible to destroy a large part of humanity in a few minutes. Satan will have his power. The powerful who command the people will incite them to produce enormous quantities of arms. God will punish man more thoroughly than with the Flood. There will come the times of all times, and the end of all ends. The great and powerful will perish together with the small and weak. Even for the Church, it will be the time of its greatest trial. Cardinals will oppose cardinals. Bishops will oppose bishops. Satan will walk among them. And in Rome, there will be changes. The Church will be darkened and the world will be shaking with terror. One great war will erupt in the second half of the twentieth century. Fire and smoke will fall from the sky. The waters of the oceans will change into steam, and the steam will rise and overflow everything. The waters of the ocean will become mist. Millions and millions of people will die from hour to hour. Whoever remains alive will envy the dead. Everywhere one turns his glance there is going to be anguish and misery, ruins in every country. The time draws nearer. The abyss widens without hope. The good to perish with the bad. The great with the small. The princes of the Church with the faithful. The rulers with their people. There will be death everywhere because of the errors committed by non-believers and crazy followers of Satan, which will then, and only then, take control over the world. At the last, those who survive, will at every chance, newly proclaim God and His glory, and will serve Him as when the world was not so perverted.
Art Bell: That’s it. Fr. Martin?
Fr. Martin: Yes, Art?
Art Bell: Any comments on that?
Fr. Martin: I’ve listened to that, and I suppose the measured response I should give to it is this, in two parts, really, two statements. It is not the text, which was given to me to read in 1960. There are elements in it, which belong in the text.
Art Bell: So, in other words… I’m trying to step as carefully as I can… in other words, you’re suggesting that this is not precisely what you had but there are elements of what you just heard…?
Fr. Martin: Yes, there are elements, which do belong, in the Third Secret. That’s about the most measured response I could give to it.
Art Bell: Okay, that’s fine, and I won’t ask you to say more but bearing in mind what I just read, would you consider the Third Secret to be as traumatic as is suggested in what I read or more so?
Fr. Martin: More so.
Art Bell: More so?
Fr. Martin: More so, yeah. Much more so. The…without…again…you know Art, stepping very carefully, the central element in the Third Secret, is awful. And it’s not in that text.
Art Bell: Its not in the text?
Fr. Martin: No its not, thank God.
Art Bell: Now, I guess I would ask this. I understand you have taken an oath, but have you considered that the shock that is required to turn things around, may be this very serious, it may be that … it should be revealed.
Fr. Martin: To your last sentence, I fully assent. It should be revealed, but here is my difficulty, Art. I’m one small little man. I have no public authority to do that. I do not know if that will be the will of God.
And since it would have such dire effects on much more than Christians, and many others, I can’t make that decision. Do you understand what I am trying to say?
Art Bell: Father, in what manner were you shown the Third Secret?
Fr. Martin: The cardinal who showed it to me had been present at a meeting held by Pope John XXIII in that year, 1960, to outline, to a certain number of cardinals and prelates what he thought should be done with the Secret. But John XXIII, Pope John XXIII, the pope in 1960, did not think that he should publish the Secret. It would ruin his, at that time, ongoing negotiations with Nikita Kruschev, the boss of all the Russians. And he also had a different outlook on life, which, in two years later, opening the Vatican council, he echoed very succinctly and almost contemptuously in the middle of his speech on October 11, 1962 in St. Peter’s to the assembled bishops who had come to the Vatican council, and the visitors, the place was crowded, huge basilica, he derided, contemptuously, that He was against the people he called “prophets of doom.” And there was no doubt in any of our minds he was talking about the three prophets of Fatima.
Art Bell: There are those within the Church who minimize what is contained in the Third Secret.
Fr. Martin: Absolutely.
Art Bell: And then there are others who don’t minimize it at all.
Fr. Martin: They exaggerate.
Art Bell: They exaggerate. So without minimizing or without exaggerating, you’re telling me what’s in the Third Secret is more horrible than what I just read.
Fr. Martin: Oh yes, Art, it is. Because, what you have just read, essentially, it is the onslaught of natural powers … sure, Satan is walking, etc, like that amongst man…but essentially it is as if nature revolted against the human race. That’s essentially, through all these terrible catastrophes a chastisement, and that’s not the essence of the Third Secret, not the frightening one.
Art Bell: Wufff!
Fr. Martin: Yes. It does stagger the imagination.
(A few minutes later)
Art Bell: Father, how much weight do you give to the entire Fatima revelations?
Fr. Martin: I consider it to be the key event in the climbing fortune of the Roman Catholic organization, and the defining event for the near future of the Church in the next millennium, the third millennium. It’s the defining event. And that is why strong men, strong men but I mean…you see, Art, when we speak about strong men, the amazing thing about this state craft, people, people who practice the craft of state, like Casaroli who just died, or Pope John Paul II, its what people always remark about great figure in history, like Napoleon, like Hitler, like Stalin. They had a will of indestructible power! And they could oppose the united wills of millions and make their point of view stick, to a certain degree anyway, until they fell, till they became a cropper, as we say in England. And similarly, in Rome there are men with strong wills. They’re in state craft all their lives. They are engaged in macro-government. Not merely a religion, but in fate. They’re up there amongst the greats. And THEY will not touch this with a large pole.
Art Bell: In what way does the Church have role in what many see coming as a one world government, a one world control point?
Fr. Martin: Two responses to that, Art, very brief responses. One is, the response already chosen by the leaders, by the managers, by the prelates, by the papacy, at the end of this millennium, and then there is what one sometimes thinks will be God’s response. The response of the present moment is this: Beginning with John XXIII, and then with Paul VI, and now with John Paul II, the response is: Let us cooperate. It has joined, as Paul VI said in his famous speech in December 1965: “Let’s cooperate with man to build his habitat.” And John Paul II is an ardent supporter of, the tendency to one world government for geopolitical reasons. He wants to bring in his brand of Christianity, of course, and Catholicism, but he certainly is in favor of it [one world government]. When he addressed the United Nations, in his last big letter to them, he salute was this: “I, John, bishop of Rome, and a member of humanity.” Now this was no longer, let’s say, Pius IX or Pius X. Pius X would have said at the beginning of this century: “I am the vicar of Jesus Christ. If you do not listen to my voice, then you are going to be damned forever. We will not participate in any government behavior, in any government plans that do not recognize the kingship of Christ.” That is completely absent. There now is the policy of cooperation with the formation of the European Union, cooperation with the United Nations, and the Vatican and the Church has entered the list in the struggle amongst the general assembly of the United Nations, and in the non-governmental organizations.
Art Bell: So it is well under way?
Fr. Martin: Well under way! That is the response, and remember, the Vatican has, on Vatican hill, it has about, what, the figure varies, over one hundred and forty ambassadors from the nations. It is an integral part, and has built itself into it over the centuries of our international life. And it has ambassadors and representatives in over ninety countries, including Russia, including Israel, and it has its representative in Beijing, not quite diplomatic status yet, but they will get to that.
Art Bell: Again, Fr. Martin, referring to what I read, which you said had a partial relevance,?
would you imagine that the person who wrote this had been privy in some way to the original text
Fr. Martin: Yes, yes, yes, certainly, at least by word of mouth, not by reading.
Art Bell: I understand.
(later in the program)
Art Bell: All right, here we go. Just a couple of things I want to quickly read, one from a friend in Australia, Father who says, “I had a Jesuit priest tell me more of the Third Secret of Fatima years ago, in Perth. He said among other things, the last pope would be under control of Satan. Pope John fainted, thinking it might be him. We were interrupted before I could hear the rest.” Any comment on that?
Fr. Martin: Yes. It sounds as if they were reading or being told the text of the Third Secret.
Art Bell: Oh my!